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IcicleTricycle
Fresh Boarder
Posts:2

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177641 2 years, 3 months ago
First off, can we stop with the "fake Jerry" nonsense? If musicians over the years hadn't emulated other musicians can you imagine how boring music would be? This ain't Beatlemania we're talking about.

I have nothing against John K, he seems like a nice guy whom I'd like to have a beer with. He's also a competent musician and vocalist, and you can tell he knows he's under a microscope. He's not resting on any laurels that's for sure.

Since Jerry is no longer with us, what is the alternative, just retire the ol' song book and listen to tapes?

I found your analysis of '91 to '12 interesting, and you certainly get props for the effort.


91 marked 10 years of being on the bus. Think I saw a half dozen shows culminating with the Bill Graham memorial in GG park. That show was memorable for a lot of things, but the Dead's performance was not one of them imho. To think I'd always dreamed of seeing them there, and it just goes to show the venue is no guarantee of a great show. This gig was broadcast on local radio, so the Dead played a radio friendly set list, but I digress.

As far as '91 vs. '12 or '11 or '10 I will say this: I have had more enjoyment seeing Furthur on a few occasions then just about any show I saw in '91. My first Furthur show in 2010 is a good case in point. There are probably 50 Dead shows I saw that were better than any Furthur show, and a few Furthur shows that were better than some Dead shows. Watching Jerry on one of his off nights was a serious bummer, as we all know. I think John and the rest of the group are doing their best to not have any off nights.
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patchmyfurthur
Platinum Boarder
Posts:3392

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177643 2 years, 3 months ago
"go hate elsewhere" when previously stating Ratdog sucked in comparison to Furthur?

I mean, I find them both to be different, musically. And in that same sense, they are both musically satisfying.
kevin
Platinum Boarder
Posts:3355

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177722 2 years, 3 months ago
patchmyfurthur wrote:
"go hate elsewhere" when previously stating Ratdog sucked in comparison to Furthur?

I mean, I find them both to be different, musically. And in that same sense, they are both musically satisfying.


First and foremost, thank you Ed for the comparison to the two runs, many interesting points raised and statistics presented, it is kinda hard to compare 2 bands with mostly different players in a world 20 years removed from 1991
2nd, I think ratdog was a good outlet for Bobby to continue his musical journey in a band that he headlined and also was an absolutely wonderful scene to keep the spirit of the grateful dead continuing and evolving to the band Bobby is leading today. Comparing JK to Jerry is like comparing Derek Jeter to Mickey Mantle, both were or are supreme contributors to their team's or band's success, but bring different talents to the table however you wish to interpret it. I do believe Ratdog's popularity was due to the fact that they were one of the only regularly touring bands where our community could continue to thrive and keep the spirit of the music alive. Musically, I have said from day one that Phil brings credibility to this band that Bobby couldn't attain when it was just him leading his band, just my opinion, but Furthur blows the roof off Ratdog in terms of the powerful "moments" they consistently produce. This is a journey, let's enjoy the ride.
-- smell every flower --
Last Edit: 2 years, 3 months ago by kevin. Reason: t
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teafortexas
Expert Boarder
Posts:755
Dancin on a pin

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177826 2 years, 3 months ago
Didn't see the BEACON run so maybe I'm not in a position to be truly impartial. While I love Furthur, that GD MSG 91 run was excellent! It would have been no contest IMHO weren't it not for one Vincent Welnick (may he RIP).

I will not allow this board to be reduced to the lowest common denominator with childish name-calling and personal attacks. I am sure that Not Sure is a DB. Now go to your room.
Everybody is either making love...Or else expecting rain
Last Edit: 2 years, 3 months ago by teafortexas.
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Griff
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Posts:856
Don't you see........

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177850 2 years, 3 months ago
While I was turned off by the Jerry vs John part of the article, I too have to agree that it was well written and very interesting. Some of the points were very well made, most notably the fact that all music is played by someone other then the original and without that we would have lost a lot over the years.

Thus, when the NY Philharmonic plays a piece, are they just a cover band as compared to the original orchestra in Vienna that played that Mozart piece for the first time?????

I am guessing that the above example immediately invokes an indignant reaction in many people as how can you compare Mozart to the Grateful Dead. I would actually argue that the Dead's music rises to that level of sophistication. Not similar in terms of music theory and function, yet similar in terms of complexity and beauty.

So when Furthur plays it, is it just a cover. Or rather an interpretation?? I would say the latter. And that's my point, its simply a group of musicians (very good ones in IMHO) playing musical changes known to me as familiar songs.

And I find THAT extremely fun and satisfying.
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Griff
Expert Boarder
Posts:856
Don't you see........

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177927 2 years, 3 months ago
Just another thought for you all on the JG vs JK thing............

I think one problem I have at times is the fact that I know Jerry's playing so well in the songs that when I don't hear something I am used to it "hurts". Meaning my mind and ear are expecting one thing and get something different. Not bad, just different. And it doesn't feel good, like my old blanket (read Jerry).

I know that many of my friends struggle with Bob singing Jerry's songs. It doesn't fit their ear. A similar situation.

So today I am listening to Mountain Song from last Sat night (really nice version.....faster then most.........like the tempo). And listening to some really nice playing by John and realize I have no preconceived notions in this song for his playing. So all that he does fits my ear perfectly. Why?? Jerry never played this song.

Perhaps that is a reason for the struggle some have with John's playing. Again, I love his work. I am musician and started playing the guitar when I was 13 (now 46), and realize just how hard it is to do and how easy he makes it look.

Keep up the good work John (had the pleasure of telling him that in person in Eugene last year).
kevin
Platinum Boarder
Posts:3355

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#177942 2 years, 3 months ago
Griff wrote:
Just another thought for you all on the JG vs JK thing............

I think one problem I have at times is the fact that I know Jerry's playing so well in the songs that when I don't hear something I am used to it "hurts". Meaning my mind and ear are expecting one thing and get something different. Not bad, just different. And it doesn't feel good, like my old blanket (read Jerry).

I know that many of my friends struggle with Bob singing Jerry's songs. It doesn't fit their ear. A similar situation.

So today I am listening to Mountain Song from last Sat night (really nice version.....faster then most.........like the tempo). And listening to some really nice playing by John and realize I have no preconceived notions in this song for his playing. So all that he does fits my ear perfectly. Why?? Jerry never played this song.

Perhaps that is a reason for the struggle some have with John's playing. Again, I love his work. I am musician and started playing the guitar when I was 13 (now 46), and realize just how hard it is to do and how easy he makes it look.

Keep up the good work John (had the pleasure of telling him that in person in Eugene last year).


great perspective, I admit I was floored the first time I saw Phil stage left, Bobby center and HUH ?? on the right, but these guys are keeping alive the one thing that helps me stay connected to my youth and the feeling of family and community that no other music can provide.
"if you get confused, listen to the music play"
-- smell every flower --
Last Edit: 2 years, 3 months ago by kevin.
23atwell
Platinum Boarder
Posts:4913
I love what I love and I want it that way

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#178649 2 years, 3 months ago
not sure wrote:
Jerry garcia vs Fake jerry? No comparison. Furthur is slow and lethargic. They have played some good shows, but even on their best night they can't compare to the worst grateful dead shows. Jerry on his off nights makes fake jerry look like a pre-schooler.
((I hear people say that fake jerry has a hard time dealing with people calling him fake jerry. Hey john, what did you expect you would get called after you and DSO ripped off the dead for so many years? you are basicly a poor immitation. A fake. Grow some balls and deal with it, or get out.))

Jerry garcia would pour his heart and soul all over the stage, fake jerry tries to sound like real jerry but his emotions, like himself are fake and copied, rather then inspired on the spot.
Furthur can, and never ever will be as inspired, on, energetic, upbeat or heartfelt as the good old grateful dead.
No band on EARTH can compare with good old grateful dead.
Asking this question is like asking who would win a fight between gary coleman and andre the giant.
Seriously, when comparing furthur to the grateful dead, furthur sucks.
Lets compare furthur to DSO. DSO is WAY better then furthur, specially since they got rid of jonh.
Thats my .02 and i'm stickin to it.


I respect you opion. Obviously you don't go to furthur shows, your just one less person that we have to battle with trying to get a ticket to a SOLD OUT show. One less person that we have to fight with trying to get a good seat at a GA show.
And I'm going to sit right here until I die
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GreatestStoryEverTold
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Posts:777

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#178985 2 years, 3 months ago
How about Furthur Beacon Run 2012 vs. Furthur Summer Tour 2012-East Coast Leg- sounds like a better sound discussion.
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scar1et_f1re
Platinum Boarder
Posts:4900
R U Kind?

Re: Furthur's Beacon Run vs the Dead's MSG Run

#179287 2 years, 3 months ago
not sure wrote:
"How mature of you. I bet your mom still cleans your room for you. I have been to over 250 dead shows from hershey 85 to soldier field 95, so what. . I never called anyone an idiot or a loser though.



Not to pick on anyone, but I gotta say I am amazed you could see the magic back then and so you went to 250+ show yet now you can't find it? I started a few years earlier than you brother, and for me, to hear Furhtur play Alligator, Viola Lee Blues or Good Morning Little Schoolgirl.... etc is a special treat and something you and I never heard live with the GD.

All I can say is I still hear that same magic and so do a lot of us. Is it as strong as with the GD or the same magic? Well I do know know nor do I care. All I know is I still LOVE the music, I still hear that magic and I am still driven to see as many shows as humanly possible. The scene is still very much alive. You just gotta believe it if you need it.......and of course, if you don't well just pass it on.
FFF! Family is Forever!!!

May God bless and keep you always
May your wishes all come true
May you always do for others
And let others do for you
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